Tragedy & Reactions - Conflict & Creative Solution
It is all in our hands and hearts to change our world into a better one!
Victims of Victory - Is war the only solution? - Seven Tanka
Reflections about: Who is attacking and why?
InkyPinkie:
People are shocked and they are reacting in each one's individual way. What seems to be common with all is, that they find the cause and the guilty one, in this case the 'terrorists'. If they find out who it was, they will punish them or they will just use any of the various suspicious groups which have shown before to be against the 'democratic system'. 
An attack gives the right to use revenge. Right? The whole tradition supports it, Christian or others. Every thing serves as a reason to react, to strengthen one's own position. And the side effect is, that every body involved (who is not involved in such a dramatic happening?) will react and so feel one's own existence, then making this feeling even much stronger by putting out energy towards an 'enemy'. United with others who are suffering, being justified by the obvious facts. 
Reacting with violence to violence produces always chain reactions, which then might even cause an uncontrolled world wide war. There is so much accumulated aggression every where, waiting under the surface to explode... Who wants to be a victim of a world wide explosion? Is this real action because it allows to have real reactions? What has happened is the same we can see every day in all these action movies, we are consuming since quite some time and which were lately more and more boring in spite of the more and more spectacular actions. In horror movies there are always the bad ones, so every thing is clear. 
Nobody needs to engage themselves and so it becomes boring after a while. Are we engaged now in the real happening seeing it in TV? It is so easy to give the fault to someone: To the terrorists, to the government or whatever. But who asks for the cause? 
It is said that the attack is directed against the system. That's obvious but does it really matter  where the attack comes from? Does it make sense to ask 'why' this happens? Isn't the fact that there exists an established system (which due to the survival needs of each system, is not open for growing beyond the established limitations), that this produces and causes resistance from inside the system? And when this resistance is suppressed and the system reacts also to the outside and other different systems in a defensive way, that this inflexibility causes violent reactions? 
Wasn't there 2000 years ago a kind of hippy, a guy who tried to tell people that the old way of reacting with violence to violence wouldn't be the right way? (He was even talking about 'love', what seems to be far out of daily reality...) His talks were obviously against the established system, which then reacted in a defensive way to this attack by eliminating this 'hippy terrorist'. Isn't it still the same today? Who is reflecting about what is happening?
Can we do something about it, which is not violent but would make a difference? Or is that all: Feeling as a victim, suffering and finding the cause outside? 
Probably it is too much to ask that each of us should look inside. To discover that the outside happening is just an accumulated reaction of the same what happens (daily!) within each of us. We are holding on to what we believe we are: To our belief system, our property, to all what we have established in long years of our individual life. 
What we defend by reacting to all influences coming from outside (which might be influences from inside which we project to the outside, to more easily be able to reject them). Each of us in one's own way and also if necessary (?) with violence. 
Who wants to reflect about it? Who wants to talk about it? Who wants to use this forum in a creative way with the risk to show oneself admitting that we are all vulnerable...?
Billy: Let's not try to over rationalize this. They took their anger towards the US government out on thousands of innocent civilians. 
An act such as that deserves no second thinking. We simply hunt them down and destroy them like the stinking cowards that they are. 
Anyone of us or members of our families could have been in those buildings. 
InkyPinkie: Yes, you are completely right: No thinking necessary, only spontaneous reacting. Let's destroy them all, whoever they are. In spite they will do the same with us. They have the same right to react, when we will have killed thousands of them including children and women. It might be possible that we can't eliminate them all and then they will do the same revenge with us and send us some missiles with nice atom heads. But it doesn't matter, we will fight up to the last man and defend our right to react and take revenge. Oh boy!
Billy: Or we could just say, "Oh well, we must have deserved it... perhaps it was our karma." 
Every terrorist in the world is invited to kill all of us right now. Go 
ahead; we DESERVE it! (watch out Inky, it may be your house next) 
Go ahead - kill our children too while you're at it; we'll just look away 
and say, "well, how can we be sure we have the right guy?" 
What if that was your mother jumping from that building to get out of the 
fire???????
Listen up! The government should be applauded for not lashing out in anger. This is going to be a determined process of gathering enough evidence to know who supplied them, who helped them, and who else was involved; when they are found - THEY WILL BE DESTROYED!!!
What happened was not a fantasy. It was not a part of the formal world 
either. It was Goddamned REAL. 
Or we could just say, "Oh well, we must have deserved it... 

BeiYin: Yes indeed. But it is not enough to just say it. It is necessary to look deep inside of oneself to discover that the reason for all happening lays in the first place within one's first reaction and action. What means one's attitude, one's behavior, one's habits.
The background from one is responding to life and all happenings
around oneself. Read the following post from Betsy carefully and I
wish that you can receive something essential which gives some light to you to see things in a different way than out of unreflective reactions and hate.

Billy: I suggest that you go to New York and help pull some of the bodies from those buildings and then we'll see if you still have the same passive attitude. 

RoyBoy: Well that is kind of the point... not to make emotional decisions, not to fall into the trap laid by these terrorist.  As time goes by I feel (strangely enough) that the correct controlled action will be taken against the group (and/or) state directly and even indirectly responsible for this abomination. 

BeiYin: Do you want to say that you pulled out bodies from those buildings?
And because of this you have strong reactions? Or do you use this just
as a strong argument to justify your hate? 
What do you mean by 'passive attitude'? Do you think I have no reactions? I have, although there is no hate, but a lot of sadness and
desperation, also some anger about so much ignorance every where. But
I look at this anger and my desperation and understand that these
feelings arise because I don't want to accept reality. My image how it
should and could be is different. But I can't change reality, so the best seems to be, instead of fighting against it by producing reactions and looking for something to boost on it, to use this energy channeling it into something creative. At least that's what I'm trying to do by writing here, with the intention to help that we don't run like bullies after each red cloth which shows up, to release one's highly accumulated tension... but that we exchange our feelings and thoughts to find maybe a solution in this difficult situation, so that we maybe don't run blindly into the abyss of destruction...

Ramiga:  ... wish I had a solution. 

BeiYin: There is no solution which could be applicable to the world
situation. It's because of the separation between people. Because of the
difference between ways of life and belief systems. Because of the
need to strengthen one's own position and the need to use an opponent
for this. Because of the primitive state of consciousness of the average human, who is not capable to reflect upon one's reactions and instead of this projecting one's negativity to the outside, into circumstances or onto an opponent. Because of the dependency of people, clinging on habits, even worn out, not being able to drop them. Clinging on every thing which gives identification. Not being able to observe and being aware that gaining and keeping 'property', feelings, thoughts, body and any kind of material stuff, doesn't give security and for sure not happiness. Because all established systems keep people in dependency, delivering belief concepts, which not only keep people busy through being identified with it, but also fighting for it and defending it against other belief systems. Indeed there is no solution. Humanity is still in a state of developing the individual personalities. For this opponents are needed, for this enemies are needed. For this it is necessary to provoke the opponent, so that his reaction gives the right to show one's own strength. Oh, what a game!
Producing suffering and pain, because all caused suffering will make a
back slash to oneself! People are not able to see this, they give the fault for their pain to the other. They are even right with it, not being able to see that they have caused the provocation by themselves.
Is there no solution? It seems hopeless. Or is it possible that each of us, in spite of the obvious happenings, takes part in the responsibility for anything which occurs in the world, although it seems that it has nothing to do with one's personal actions. Yes, this is asking far too much. People will go on acting and reacting in the most primitive way, calling for revenge, etc. So who is throwing the first stone?

Laurent: All fighting for gods that not even exist... it's so primitive! 

InkyPinkie: If one fights for something, then one exists. In a way it doesn't really matter for what one is fighting. The fact that one is fighting for it makes it existing. The fight gives identification, that counts in the first place.
Look at yourself: You express yourself. Why? Although what you are
expressing is pretty poor, it has no real argument and is using words
which are vague and without content. You are putting yourself into an
absurd position by judging yourself, calling others primitive, doing exactly the same yourself. Why do you express yourself in such a primitive way? You have an opinion and you are identified with it, even this is poor. But it makes you feel to be some body. That's enough and probably you will defend your position. If you don't have arguments, then you will react emotionally. As a last argument you will hit me on my nose in case we are face to face. Right? Maybe you will take the chance of this occasion to let out your anger you have accumulated for some time and you will beat me up if it turns out that I'm weaker than you. Are we primitive then or are we just normal average civilized humans? Oh boy...
- - - - - - - - -

Quote InkyPinkie: "People are shocked and they are reacting in each one's individual way.
What seems to be common with all is, that they find the cause and the
guilty one, in this case the 'terrorists'. If they find out who it was, they will punish them or they will just use any of the various suspicious groups which have shown before to be against the 'democratic system'."

Betsy: And behind 'this motive' is America's need to show it's strength,
not only to reassure it's people but also the rest of the world.
America will use every tool that it has to find someone guilty: the CIA, FBI, forged documents, edited photos, force-fed news, lies, etc.;  to prove that they have 'caught' the villain. Once targeted, then any response is justified..

Quote InkyPinkie: An attack gives the right to use revenge. Right? The whole tradition supports it, Christian or not. Every thing serves as a reason to
react, to strengthen one's own position. And the side effect is, that every body involved (who is not involved in such a dramatic happening?) will react spontaneous and simultaneous and so feel one's own existence, making this feeling stronger by putting out energy towards an 'enemy'. United with others who are suffering, being justified by the obvious facts.

Betsy: I think this kind of dramatic happening shows this effect even more clear. Today in the news I see that the US stock market remains closed and gasoline prices in the US have went from around $1.00 per gallon to $5.00 per gallon in one day. This shows the chain reactions and the panic mode in effect, how people are reacting to secure their positions. I can imagine that people all over the world are reacting defensively to the possible threat of war.
I can see these pockets of people, talking together about this event, deciding on who is to blame and subsequently forming their mental allegiances in case of... 

Quote InkyPinkie: Reacting with violence to violence will produce a chain reaction, which might even cause an uncontrolled world wide war. There is so much accumulated aggression every where, waiting under the surface to explode...

Betsy: It is too bad that people can't see the problem of reacting to
terrorist attacks with violence. Clearly violence begets violence, and it is not known where the chain reactions will stop, if ever. Any act of aggression today has this potential to involve the whole world because the distances between all countries and people are much closer than in the past and also because of our advanced communication technologies. There seems to be an underlying (unconscious) growing fear of extinction, which I can understand when I look around and see our manifested reality. 

Quote InkyPinkie: Who wants to be a victim of a world wide explosion? Is this real action because it allows to have real reactions? What has happened is the same we can see every day in all these action movies, we were consuming since quite some time and which were lately more and more boring in spite of the more and more spectacular actions. In horror movies there are always the bad ones, so every thing is clear.
Nobody needs to engage themselves and so it becomes boring after a
while. Are we engaged now in the real happening seeing it in TV? It is
so easy to give the fault to someone: To the terrorists, to the government or whatever. But who asks for the cause?

Betsy: Yes, what is the cause of this? Clearly it is not as simple as a terrorist group being the bad guy. Clearly, to just pinpoint a bad guy and retaliate, this solves none of the real problems laying under the surface of such an event. There exists no such thing as a spontaneous non related event. The responsibility for this event rests in society, it's ills and sicknesses, in the mass consciousness. I can see that there is a common thread underneath it all and it is the need  of people to defend themselves in order to feel their existence. They will defend anything which they feel is important for their individual survival, way beyond that of their actual physical reality, mostly it rests in their head. 

Quote InkyPinkie: It is said that the attack goes against the system. That's obvious and it doesn't really matter from where the attack comes. Doesn't it make sense to ask 'why' this happens? Isn't the fact that there exists an
established system (which maybe is not open for growing beyond the
established limitations), that this produces and causes resistance from inside the system?  And when this resistance is suppressed and the system reacts also to the outside and other different systems in a defensive way, that this inflexibility causes violent reactions?

Betsy: This seems to be a generality which can be applied to all systems.
All is a reaction to something which came before it. That these types
of acts are becoming more common, not just in America but around
the world, reflects the growing restlessness of people. 

Quote InkyPinkie: Wasn't there 2000 years ago a kind of hippy, a guy who tried to tell people that the old way of reacting with violence to violence wouldn't be the right way? (He was even talking about 'love', what seems to be far out of daily reality...) This obviously was against the established system, which then reacted in a defensive way by
eliminating the one who attacked. Isn't it still the same today? Who is reflecting about what is happening?

Betsy: Obviously you are and I thank you that you took the time to look more deeply into this happening, as it gives me more pause to consider how something like this affects us all. I reflected and saw how I am becoming desensitized to things like this, like you said before, it's like watching a movie, it's doesn't feel real. In this way, I don't have to take
responsibility for it, it's easier to not feel. 

Quote InkyPinkie: Can we do something about it, which is not violent but would make a difference? Or is it all, feeling as a victim, suffering and finding the cause outside?  Probably it is too much to ask that each of us should look inside. To discover that the outside happening is just an accumulated reaction of the same what happens (daily!) within each of us. We are holding on to what we believe we are: To our belief system, our property, to all what we have established in the long years of our individual life.
What we defend by reacting to all influences coming from outside. Each
of us in one's own way and also if necessary (?) with violence. 

Betsy: Yes, that does seem to be the most creative solution, if everyone
today could just take that look inside and question what it is that they are protecting. If they could just get a hint of how this outside event is a reflection of each individual's personal reaction pattern, then maybe they would take the time. Perhaps then they would start to see how much energy they spend each day, protecting that which is pointless to protect. If one wouldn't react defensively to outside events, then the violence would stop.  But it doesn't look like anyone really wants that. Because in order to do this whole-heartedly, one would have to be willing to give up their precious personal interests for the common interest.

Quote InkyPinkie: Who wants to reflect about it? Who wants to talk about it? Who wants to use this forum in a creative way with the risk to show oneself admitting that we are all vulnerable...?

Betsy: I hope there is someone out there who feels the same.
- - - - - - - -

Quote InkyPinkie: People are shocked and they are reacting in each one's individual way.
What seems to be common with all is, that they find the cause and the
guilty one, in this case the 'terrorists'. If they find out who it was, they will punish them or they will just use any of the various suspicious groups which have shown before to be against the 'democratic system'. 

BeiYin: There is the saying: Like above, so below. What in my
interpretation means that what happens on a huge scale is just the
representation of what happens individually in the majority of the
population. The world leaders are chosen and in their limitation they
represent the limitation of the people. What are the interests of
people? So those people who hold the power, because they are selected
legally or  came to powerful positions because they worked their whole
life to reach such a state, can't have distinct interests otherwise they wouldn't be there using the same interest of all for their purpose. In a way every body is using every one and the established system to reach their goal, or at least striving for it. 

InkyPinkie: The given goal by society is: Making money, making more
money to use the money to make more money, to have the position and
power to make more money and to have more power. Every thing and every body serves exclusively this purpose. So no wonder that there are
tendencies within the population which build up resistance in different forms, trying to find an alternative way of life. These tendencies are of course going against the interest of the money maker and they use their power to manipulate where ever they can and this indeed goes through all fields of existence. With other words: The average population is like a sheep herd, easily manipulated through their own needs given as a goal by society. Then this is called 'democratic system'!

Quote InkyPinkie: An attack gives the right to use revenge. Right? The whole tradition supports it, Christian or others. Every thing serves as a reason to react, to strengthen one's own position. And the side effect is, that every body involved (who is not involved in such a dramatic happening?) will react and so feel one's own existence, making this feeling stronger by putting out energy towards an 'enemy'. United with others who are suffering, being justified by the obvious facts.

BeiYin: The tradition and culture as part of the system gives the
possibility to be identified with it, so that the personality has a
background from which can be reacted. Christian and other tendencies
are integrated and help to find a more individual color. Tradition is
pretty worn out and doesn't give much sense to peoples life, so they
are looking to fill their emptiness with sensations, reaching out for
excitement.

InkyPinkie: There are several groups of money maker (or they are all
the same?) there are the industry for entertainment, there is the
industry to deliver the delicious substitutes like food and drinks,
another industry serving entertainment through music, virtual cyber
reality, etc. and there is the other group of money maker (or the
same?) which serve delivering all kind of drugs, tobacco, alcohol,
etc. and there is the other industry which is in the health business dealing with the sickness caused by the other industries. Indeed a big business... There is no gap left open not fulfilling the needs of people and so there is the other group of money maker which serve on the spiritual market. The offer is very brought and fulfills the needs of every body. Right? In reality there is still an urge for more. For something more essential which can't be fulfilled by stuff one can buy. People are not satisfy, tension builds up, anger is accumulated, growing more and more. All possibilities so far used seem to guide no where. But people are on a rail road, going on and on, because they are used to be guided and there seems to be no way to jump off the limitations and restrictions. Something dramatic happens!
And although shocked and suffering, people are moved. They can react
and they do it! It feels like they are waking up. They feel themselves
in a new way. They have the possibility to direct their accumulated
anger and disappointment into a certain direction. They can shout,
scream, together with other who feel the same. That feels good! 

Quote InkyPinkie: Reacting with violence to violence will produce a chain reaction, which might even cause an uncontrolled world wide war. There is so much accumulated aggression every where, waiting under the surface to explode... Who wants to be a victim of a world wide explosion? Is this real action because it allows to have real reactions? What has happened is the same we can see every day in all these action movies, we were consuming since quite some time and which were lately more and more boring in spite of the more and more spectacular actions. In horror movies there are always the bad ones, so every thing is clear.
Nobody needs to engage themselves and so it becomes boring after a
while. Are we engaged now in the real happening seeing it in TV? It is
so easy to give the fault to someone: To the terrorists, to the
government or whatever. But who asks for the cause?

BeiYin: Although it is obvious that people are not ready to question
themselves, the happening now gives the opportunity that a certain
openness due to the shock situation can be creatively used to receive
some information to bring light into one's background.

InkyPinkie: It is said that the attack goes against the system. That's obvious and it doesn't really matter from where the attack comes. Doesn't it make sense to ask 'why' this happens? Isn't the fact that there exists an
established system (which maybe is not open for growing beyond the
established limitations), that this produces and causes resistance
from inside the system? And when this resistance is suppressed and the
system reacts also to the outside and other different systems in a
defensive way, that this inflexibility causes violent reactions? 

BeiYin: Probably you are right: The happening is part of a growing
process which includes humanity in its wholeness. Probably this is
impossible to be recognized by people.

Quote InkyPinkie: Wasn't there 2000 years ago a kind of hippy, a guy who tried to tell people that the old way of reacting with violence to violence wouldn't be the right way? (He was even talking about 'love', what seems to be far out of daily reality...) This obviously was against the established system, which then reacted in a defensive way by eliminating this attack. Isn't it still the same today? Who is reflecting about what is happening? 
Can we do something about it, which is not violent but would make a
difference? Or is it all, feeling as a victim, suffering and finding the cause outside? 

BeiYin: Such a situation like now will make something to people. Yes,
most of them will project to the outside and react. Using the opportunity to get out their accumulated frustration and anger. But there will be also people who will use their desperation in a creative way, recognizing that the happening outside is the direct reflection of the same situation within themselves. 

Quote InkyPinkie: Probably it is too much to ask that each of us should look inside.
To discover that the outside happening is just an accumulated reaction of
the same what happens (daily!) within each of us. We are holding on to
what we believe we are: To our belief system, our property, to all
what we have established in the long years of our individual life.
What we defend by reacting to all influences coming from outside. Each
of us in one's own way and also if necessary (?) with violence.

BeiYin: If we recognize our own (personal) system and do the first step beyond in a creative (non violent) way, then the social system, which only exist because it is the sum of all of us, will also change in a smooth way.
And even the leader and the people who are holding now the power
positions will adapt themselves to new ways. Who knows? They can go on making money, but maybe they will use ways which don't harm anybody?

Quote InkyPinkie: Who wants to reflect about it? Who wants to talk about it? Who wants to use this forum in a creative way with the risk to show oneself admitting that we are all vulnerable...?

BeiYin: I agree, we should use the marvelous possibilities of the
Internet for a creative exchange...
- - - - - - - - - - -
Ramiga: "... Stand proud, America!"

BeiYin: The dilemma is that every bodies opinion is right, at least for 
the one who is holding it. As long as the opinions slash against each
other, there is no bridge to come together. And as there is total
identification with one's opinion, so this standpoint must be defended
with all means. It is a question of survival of one's personality, of
one's existence. 'Pride' is a posture which demonstrates security and 
self confidence, but doesn't really help in conflict situations.

Betsy: This dilemma is reflected in this thread. As long as there is a
taking of sides, there is no common ground that can open a dialog for
real communication. This is happening everywhere with every little
thing, 'because' people identify with their opinions and/or beliefs.
Then they defend it in their own individual way. There is no
difference between what goes on with a little argument and what
happened in New York, except that the defense tactic of the attackers
in America was more extreme. Is there another way to interact or
communicate that is not based on winning one's point of view?

BeiYin: Is there a solution to get out of these personal cages? 

Betsy:  I know there is a solution and people even know about it, but
the problem is that they don't want to do it. What it requires is that
they question themselves and what they are holding onto. They must be
willing to let go of that old historic past that they cherish so
dearly, that which they erroneously feel gives them a meaningful
purpose. We all want to win, and winning means getting our point of
view validated, that which is meaningful for us.

BeiYin: People are used to manipulate whatever they can reach for their
personal purpose and goal. So they do their best to conquer terrain on
all levels to include it to their property. Part of this is that they use all their strength, like it is from the first moment of existence of the first living cell. Nothing has changed, only that humans using highly sophisticated means to reach their goal.

Betsy: When you say 'used to manipulate', I see that it means that it
is such an automatic response pattern that people are not even aware
that they are doing it. I see that the whole defend one's point of view stance is mimicking behavior based on survival instincts. But the
funny thing here is that what is being defended (one's precious
viewpoints), are just mental images that have no basis in reality.
Yet, this is not to say that ideas from thoughts are not real, just look at what happened a few days ago based on someone's opinion on what is right! The point is, is that what is being defended is directly linked to individual (separated) preferences that allow the individual or group to survive with their belief of what is right.
This belief of rightness coming from separation and the desire to win
one's own selfish point of view can never agree with what is right for
all of humanity. That is why it is said: Thou shalt not judge... Now if everyone could just do the same...

BeiYin: What is their goal? Obviously in the first place to secure and enrich their personal existence, - forming groups with the same intention and goal makes them stronger. Then groups go against groups if they have
different concepts of existence. Countries against countries, nations
against nations. 

Betsy: This is so clear and obvious as the reason for wars, that it is
VIVID. But if that is the case, why is it still happening? Is it because people are still sleeping, thinking that it doesn't have to do with them? Why can't people realize that each of us is responsible, and that nothing will change until we as individuals change our behaviors!? This is the one thing/something that each of us can do.

BeiYin: The identification with a higher goal makes that the
individuals even go beyond their personality and sacrifice their
existence, this indeed is a phenomenon. But the western culture can't
give such a strong goal. The traditional idealistic Christian concept
serves now mainly as a kind of covering paint on a pure materialistic
concept. Even though this represents the power of the western world,
this is not a strong position, for this the system is not enough in
balance, there are too many people which can't participate in the
welfare of the rich. And then there are countries which are suffering
from being extremely poor, not because they have no resources, but
because these are explored by the rich of other countries. Obviously
it is not enough to forgive the depths of the poor if they are still
suffering...
The ideological strengths of the materialistic world view stands on
weak feet and it will probably not survive for much longer...
Transformation is needed and is happening, the rigid shells will
brake. I was just told that in New York yesterday it happened a
phenomenon: People were talking with each other in the street, what
didn't occur before when every body was just rushing to their job.
Could it be possible, that people find out that others are suffering
the same? The next step would be to find out that people of other
cultures, beliefs, etc. are just the same humans with the same pain!
Could this be possible? I guess we are still far away from this, but
we are moving towards it. This gives some hope!
We just can hope that those people who hold the power, as they are
human like you and me, will reflect and question themselves and be
part of the movement towards each other... On the personal level they
are breaking down not only since yesterday. They are kept together
because of the weight of the mass they have created. That's right:
They are also responsible persons and they do their best to take care
of the working places etc. But it is time now that they go one step
further...
This of course is valid for each of us, every where on this planet, no
matter in which position, living under a bridge or sitting in the
highest chair in the highest building. The basic human condition with
all the needs striving towards completion is all the same. We should
gather information about it, to understand ourselves and our fellow
human beings. Then we might do the step to come together and together
we might find solutions.
- - - - - - - - - - -

BeiYin: There is the saying: Like above, so below. What in my
interpretation means that what happens on a huge scale is just the
representation of what happens individually in the majority of the
population. The world leaders are chosen and in their limitation they
represent the limitation of the people. What are the interests of people? So those people who hold the power, because they are selected legally or  came to powerful positions because they worked their whole life to reach such a state, can't have distinct interests otherwise they wouldn't be there using the same interest of all for their purpose.
In a way every body is using every one and the established system to reach their goal, or at least striving for it. 

Betsy: I agree, whatever manifests on a larger scale, clearly reflects
a majority of the mass opinion or what can be said of 'society'.
Whatever this may be, can clearly be argued as positive or negative,
which depends on the individual viewpoint (values of the personality).
So one may or may not like the current leader and one may or may not
like what happened in the United States. When people look at things
they color it with their personal value system. These values
subsequently are defended at all cost (Why? Because it gives us a
strong feeling for meaningful purpose.),  as a side affect causing
chain reactions in the environment around us forming mass societal
manifestations of agreement and disagreement. So all that occurs 
or is visible is a mirror of what IS reality or mass opinion, positive
and negative. That makes 'you know who' responsible for what
happened as it is all inter-connected.

BeiYin: The tradition and culture as part of the system gives the
possibility to be identified with it, so that the personality has a
background from which can be reacted. Christian and other tendencies
are integrated and help to find a more individual color. Tradition is
pretty worn out and doesn't give much sense to peoples life, so they
are looking to fill their emptiness with sensations, reaching out for
excitement.

Betsy: Our background, or our personality, is built up from all that
happened to us since birth and even before. Also we inherit values
from the family and culture that we were born into. Our individual
experiences plus our inherited past create a reference point from
which we react in a defensive way (positively or negatively) to
outside events (people, places and things). Mostly this reaction
pattern is totally unconscious, we don't question why we react in
certain ways, we JUST REACT. It is sad to see it the way you express
it above, that people are reaching always for new excitement being
tired of the old. When you see what has happened and you understand it
is due to people 'wanting to react stronger and stronger'. 

Quote InkyPinkie: There are several groups of money maker (or they are all the same?) there are the industry for entertainment, there is the
industry to deliver the delicious substitutes like food and drinks,
another industry serving entertainment through music, virtual cyber
reality, etc. and there is the other group of money maker (or the
same?) which serve delivering all kind of drugs, tobacco, alcohol,
etc. and the health business which deals with the sickness caused by the other industries, Indeed a big business... There is no gap left open not fulfilling the needs of people and so there is the other group of money maker which serve on the spiritual market. The offer is very brought and
fulfills the needs of every body. Right?

Betsy: This covers the majority of money-makers that offer substitutes
that people demand to feel their existence in outside ways. I just
think that you should mention the other large group of money-makers
that satisfy the needs of people who find value in the ownership of
material things. So yes, all bases of needy people are covered by
profit making enterprises. (An aside: Is it just me, or does anyone
else out there notice that search engines now predominately return
links where there is something to buy?)

Quote BeiYin: In reality there is still an urge for more. For something more essential which can't be fulfilled by stuff one can buy. People are not satisfy, tension builds up, anger is accumulated, growing more and more. All possibilities so far used seem to guide no where. But people are on a rail road, going on and on, because they are used to be guided and there seems to be no way to jump off the limitations and restrictions. Something dramatic happens!
And although shocked and suffering, people are moved. They can react
and they do it! It feels like they are waking up. They feel themselves
in a new way. They have the possibility to direct their accumulated
anger and disappointment into a certain direction. They can shout,
scream, together with other who feel the same. That feels good! 

Betsy: I agree that the call from within gets stronger when people's
defenses are broken down. This can happen in various ways when
tragedies happen or when people are at the end of their ropes not
knowing what they can do next. This break down coming from the dismay at not being able to protect our existing structures is what creates
this opening allowing for something new to take it's place. In light
of this discussion, clearly a group voice joining together would not
only feel good but also has the possibility to really change things
around, allowing us to walk less violently. 

Quote InkyPinkie: It is said that the attack goes against the system. That's obvious and it doesn't really matter from where the attack comes. Doesn't it make sense to ask 'why' this happens? Isn't the fact that there exists an
established system (which maybe is not open for growing beyond the
established limitations), that this produces and causes resistance from inside the system? And when this resistance is suppressed and the
system reacts also to the outside and other different systems in a
defensive way, that this inflexibility causes violent reactions? 

Betsy: This seems also to be what happens in a volcano.  All outside
forms seem to want to cling to their existing shapes - this is true
for all levels: volcanoes, the individual, society, governments, money
makers, etc. The not being open for growing beyond the current shape,
shows a tendency to want to cling or defend that which is now, which
is done to try to maintain or allow the shape to survive. But yes, I
see that there is an energy non contained in form, prevalent through
all forms that wants to express differently than that which is
currently manifested. This I can imagine as an inside pressure
building up, which if suppressed will eventually erupt or break out
and this would be like a violent eruption. So this says that change is
inevitable, the growing oneness wants to express itself from all
dimensions which also includes us. Repressing this energy on a grand
scale is what causes these violent outbursts, forcing the change upon
us. There can be a more non-violent way to change, but it depends on
all individuals taking responsibility to question their own selves. 

BeiYin: Probably you are right: The happening is part of a growing
process which includes humanity in its wholeness. Probably this is
impossible to be recognized by people. 

Betsy: It almost seems like it's being forced upon us, due to our own inflexibility. 

BeiYin: Such a situation like now will make something to people. Yes,
most of them will project to the outside and react. Using the opportunity to get out their accumulated frustration and anger. But there will be also people who will use their desperation in a creative way, recognizing that the happening outside is the direct reflection of the same situation within themselves. 

Betsy: People talk and talk and talk when something like this happens.
The news media fills with it, giving people what they want to hear.
And we all know that the government (controlled by money-makers) feeds the news (owned by money-makers) all to manipulate the masses for what the government deems is the people's bests interests. Then all the people suck up all that is heard, subsequently adopting their valuable
opinions from the garbage they are fed. Clearly this behavior amasses
collective energy to 'create' the form for the next event. What will it be, what is being regurgitated? 
- - - - - - - - - -

Neil: ...For any problem to solve the problem first we must admit we have a problem, society is in denial, big things must happen before enough people can see and admit  we have a problem. All this must occur before a non-violent solution can be found.

InkyPinkie: Right, an alcoholic only has the chance to quit drinking
when he/she admits that he/she has a problem. So what is the problem
of our society? First we must name it, before we even can think about
to solve it. I could describe the problem now, but would it make sense
to someone who has no need to think about it? People are imbedded in
this society, they are borne into it, live in it, make children in it, rest in it, are happy and sick in it and they die in it. If there are some crumbles in it which makes it itching, then probably they will take it and not change their bed...
So what is the problem of people living in this society? Maybe that
they are growing out of the given frame? That they are urging for
something the society can't offer? What can this be? Can we name this,
can we make this clearer? Why there is so much tension build up,
accumulated to such an extent, that whatever reason serves to react in
a violent way? Obviously there is a lot of frustration and this for sure is because of reacting to reality, which is so different than the expectation coming out of one's needs. What are the real needs? Needs which can't be fulfilled by consuming all these wonderful things offered by society. There is a problem. What is the problem? 
- - - - - - - - -

InkyPinkie: ...Reacting with violence to violence will produce a chain reaction, which might even cause an uncontrolled world wide war...

Royboy: This is erroneous. The most powerful countries in the world
will act in unison to react to this wake up call. Chain reactions will occur, but they will be minor... world wide war is simply implausible when 80% (stupid guess) of the world's power is focused to addressing this terrorist attack... and terrorism in general.

InkyPinkie: It is fantastic that the speaker of the world government, the
representation of the world's power is connecting with us now in this
thread. It is good to know that they will take care and will addressing their power against all the bad guys, so we don't need to worry... 
(I guess the 'bad guys' are all those who are not part of the consuming 
and money making humanity).
There are still some doubts, for example: who holds the rest of 20% of
the power? As we could see, there is no protection possible to smuggle
a nice atom bomb into a main city, for this it needs not even 1% of
the world power. 
Oh boy! How can one be that naive!? Provoking a confrontation even
against the remaining 20% or 1% is so stupid and primitive, that it is
probably the best what can happen because in it's consequence it will
eliminate 80% of the world population. There will still be enough
idiots left over and they can start the same stupid game and can hit
with sticks and against each other and through stones on each others
heads, they will not wake up, not then and not now. Because going with
violence against violence that's the only thing humans are capable. Oh
Roy Joy, if you survive, they will for sure make you to the president
of the new world government.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
Victims of Victory     14.9.2001



BeiYin: It still sounds in my ears: "I will guide you to a marvelous future for all of us, after the great victory of our nation, -  which will come soon!"
This is now about sixty years ago, but it seems that this just has happened yesterday, because the echo still resounds in the voices of the world leaders from today. 

Betsy: This just shows how difficult it is for people to change. Sixty years and still we are repeating World War II behavior, today there are only new character actors. Can't anyone else see the similarities in
behaviors going on right now? What atrocities are waiting in the wings
(not forgetting a few days ago), to be inflicted on innocent people
all in the name of 'our cause'? What is the 'cause' this time? Oh, I
see, it's zealous idealism and materialistic goals. Hmmm, rings a
bell...

BeiYin: The time seems to stand still, there is movement but no real progress in human behavior. Still the same big words, still the same attitude towards life. Gaining power for one's own position is the main goal, conquering terrain no matter for which price. Measuring one's strength and re forcing it in a fight on all levels against enemies where ever they might show up. The animals do the same, but at least they rarely kill each other within the same species.

Betsy: The main thing is to survive, and to this monumental effort every 
human gives his most clever strategy to pull this off. I think that is
why we kill each other so much, because we have the capability for so
much reflection. I.e., we can rationalize the hell out of it and
invent a justification for any action we take. This, unlike animals
who are more driven by innate instincts.  If each of us could just
take a step back and observe this behavior in ourselves that allows us
to do anything to another in the name of our own cause, then perhaps
we could take a step forward.  But this is asking too much, it is way
too simple.

BeiYin: But humans don't care, they kill as many of the opponents as possible. And if they had a victory and killed plenty, then they are dancing out of joy in the streets, shouting: Victory! The victims of this victory will not have died for nothing (?) and for sure will not be left without revenge. So those who are today out of joy shouting 'victory!', tomorrow might be the victims!

Betsy: How can anyone rejoice at an other's suffering? We are all connected, so any pain of one is pain for all, there is not an obvious boundary.
When I see people attending electrocutions and rejoicing once the
guilty one is dead it is the same.  The mother cries and the victim
rejoices and they call this justified revenge. I think you address a
good point here, that of the old adage relating to karma: "What goes
around comes around."

BeiYin: How much suffering must happen, how much tears and blood must be spread over the land before people wake up? Or at least do the first step towards it by questioning what goes on, questing themselves and their reactions. There are answers, but first there must be a need to
get out of one's usual way of thinking and feeling, out of the security of old habits, out of the dense way of being in dependencies.

Betsy: The Internet is flooded right now with people sending their prayers out to everyone. I understand that the intent is well meant, but also I see that it is a form of not taking responsibility. It is like holding out a carrot, with promises of greener fields beyond. If people wanted to really help, then what they need to do is start looking at the lessons of history, to realize that it's repeating.
This not only on the government/country level, but also on the individual level or response. Of course the country/government consciousness is just a more visible reflection of individual amassed consciousness, or the majority's opinion. But in what is being written all over the Internet, I see that there are very, very few who want to ask questions about this. Given this prevalent attitude there is not much possibility to find another answer. Clearly, people obviously prefer the easier mode of PURE REACTION without reflection. 
-
BeiYin: Observing the reactions from people all over the world, I feel that I'm going to fall into depression. Again the possibility for a change seems to be wasted. There is no waking up, because people might have been touched by the tragedy they are involved and been able to watch in direct and nearly alive. But to be honest, it seems not to be more than just another spectacular TV show. Only those who lost a friend or a relative were touched profoundly and are still suffering, - because they lost something dear. 
I feel sad and depressed. I feel helpless and impotent to do something about the obvious fact, that there is no one who is trying to find a creative way to deal with the happening. There is no wakening up, all are going on in the same way like always, in the railroad of long used reactions coming out of identification with worn out thinking and feeling patterns. Suffering because of this but nevertheless clinging on them.
I will not fall deeper into depression because I can see that this reaction is caused because of an image I'm holding which does not fit to the reality. So even I might be alone with my intention, I will go on with it and do the best I can, even it seems totally useless. I will express myself and will try to share my view:
What might be needed is an investigation about a kind of 'world psychology'. To explain this: I see the planet Earth as one individual being. The planet with earth, mountains, oceans, etc. is the physical body, the other body levels are manifested through plants, animals and humans. Each level by itself is one and the beings within this are closely connected and influence each other, with other words: They are ONE, That means in its consequence, that humanity is ONE individual being. There is no consciousness about it and the focus lays in the first place on the separation between the different parts. Exactly as we all can experience it within ourselves as individuals. We are whole but we are not living it. We have all kind of splits: with what we are doing, really want to do, what we want and what we are living, etc. Is there anyone who can say to feel really healthy? We are all more or less sick. We have learned to compensate this and we are specialists to manipulate ourselves and others, but we are not balanced and healthy.
So, the same occurs with the planet as individual being. The Earth is sick in its totality, plants are sick and dying everywhere, animals are sick and dying and the humanity is sick. There is no balance: In one part of the planet people are dying because of starving and in another they are sick of abundance. What urgently is needed is an investigation how to heal the whole, to find out the causing reason why the planet is sick. The happening now in New York is a symptom for this and it is pretty clear that finding a guilty one to punish them is not a creative solution! 
Let's come together to work on this. The Internet is a good place for it. We don't need the government or any institution for this, although it would be a welcome miracle if they would take the initiative in the interest of the whole and not just for themselves. We don't depend on anybody, we are free to use our own energy to go forward. We are not impotent, we have energy and we can use it in a creative way...
- - - - - - - - -
Is war the only solution?


Judy:  I hope you wont mind a difference in opinion. 

Betsy: Hi Judy. If the viewpoint being expressed comes from somewhere beyond protecting our desire to be right, then I welcome it.
" It is too bad that people can't see the problem of reacting to terrorist attacks with violence. Clearly violence begets violence, and it is not known where the chain reactions will stop, if ever."

Judy: I am reminded of Hitler's regime of the final solution. In this case, the Jews and the Gypsies did not fight back. Our country looked on the problem as not ours. It took a direct attack on this country to convince our leaders that this was a problem we had to become involved in.

Betsy: I would seriously question how many lives were saved and 
how much suffering was alleviated by this action. Could there have been another response that would have had a better turnout? Or, is war the only solution?

Judy: In general terms I agree with what you have said. I can see that when I react with anger, I only get met with more anger and those
repercussions. But those are just verbal assaults. 

Betsy: Yes, your anger provokes the other to defend, and the other usually reacts with a similar form. As far as the resulting reaction, it really depends on who you get angry with and how far you push their button.

Judy: It does seem a different matter when it concerns life or death. 
When it comes to a national scale, I don't think we can afford the luxury of not using force.

Betsy: Behind all of this reacting, there is a commonality, which is the
desire to survive. Sometimes there is a direct physical threat, or sometimes it's a threat to the individual personalities properties.
I agree that when one is physically threatened, there must be some type of defense. But as many martial artists will testify, the best defense is to avert engaging in battle. I personally know a 6th degree black belt with much experience, who has never had to engage in a physical confrontation. He knows ways to divert the energy being thrown at him into a creative channel. Even Jesus knew about it - if you are struck on one cheek, then offer your opponent the other, something like that. When one reacts one is acting at an unconscious survival level, mostly out of control, in a type of panic (flight/fight) mode. When in this state of reacting, there is no 'space' allowed for inspiration to come up with a more creative solution. So far I can only see the individual solution which can have a growing impact down the road, but this may take too long. If everyone were to work on learning about their own way of responding to life, then together we would form a more creative mass consciousness that would be able to respond differently, beyond the old auto-pilot one of fighting fire with fire.

BeiYin: If there is a threatening situation then it depends mostly on
one's reaction to this if it comes to a concrete attack. To have this
attitude it needs a kind of sovereignty which is based beyond ordinary
personality. This might be the result of an intense training in
martial arts, which then gives the sovereignty due to the perfect
mastering of defense techniques, which includes the transformation of
the personality. Or without physical training the attitude comes out
of a life long transformation process. Just the concept of an adequate
behavior will not do it, then probably when one offers one's cheek,
one will be hit. So that shows again, that all religious or ethical
ideas, if they are not really lived in a profound transforming way,
only serve as social covers on top of the unchanged human personal
base and background. Then indeed the instinct reaction  to survive in
critical situations takes over and there can't be any creative
solution. As the majority of the population lives out of unconscious
reactions, which always can be justified, there is not much hope that
the leaders act in a different way. With all consequences: guiding to
more suffering and pain. This seems to be the only way people are
forced to learn individually. To start to quest themselves and the way
they are acting and reacting...

InkyPinkie: That means that war IS indeed the only solution? As the
consequence of the unconscious state of being of the majority. Is it
the same with starving, sickness and living under painful circumstances? I don't want as an answer the fashion word 'karma', I want an explanation which makes sense, what helps me to go on when I'm suffering and nothing seems to make sense. A war makes sense caused by the unreflected emotional reaction of the average population, but all those who don't join in the game of projecting their own negativity into an enemy producing all this hate, why these are involved in this happening and must suffer? 
You complained in another post that there are no questions and so there would be no answer. So now you have some questions and I expect that there will be answers to them. Then there might be coming more questions caused by your answers and then there might start an exchange. So... 

BeiYin: I didn't complain. I just stated that there are no questions and that without questions there would be no answers. With this I didn't want to say that I can give answers which might arise. But my experience is that if there is a question, then the answer will come. It will show up from somewhere, maybe even from a totally unexpected direction, probably because together with the question there is a certain openness which allows the answer to show up. Certainly there might show up also an answer which fits into the expectations of the asking person, so that this will be a confirmation for the holding image and there will be only openness for this kind of answer, every thing else is filtered out, that's the normal way of searching people.
To be really 'open' is something else, - I have written about it before.
A real openness might arise from desperation in a situation without
visible solution. It might but it doesn't do so necessarily. The survival need of each individual, that means holding on one's 'property' is that strong that when the threatening situation is over, one falls back in the old behavior and way to deal with difficulties. And that is: Not looking at it and suppressing arising thoughts and feelings about it and with this doubts and probable questions.
As I wrote before: I can't give any answer, it depends totally on the
person who is asking. Is there a real question? Or is there just a kind of consuming, in which one receives information as a way to add more to one's property to give an additional way to secure oneself. What now often is done by including a 'spiritual level', without changing anything and keeping the used behavior and attitude.
Again: I can't give any answer. I can express myself at this place and
with the challenge of your question, but I don't know to give you something satisfying you can add to the opinion you are holding for
yourself. My reflections might do the contrary to you and create a new
conflict if you take them in. But maybe a conflict could open the
possibility to an answer which arises from within yourself?
Probably this would be the only valuable answer, which does not create
a dependency to the outside and to any person?! A step towards freedom? What for sure would also mean freedom from suffering...
So the pain of those who are not involved in the hate produced by
common reactions and suffering because they feel compassion and
feeling helpless to change something of the situation, those might be
able to do a creative step towards freedom... Then this would make
sense and the answer is there because transformation has happened. The
questions appearing from the new positions will be different and
indeed, if we share them, we might be able to find answers in
togetherness... What means not in fighting against each other, but in
'coming together'!
So it will be.

BeiYin: Yes, coming together is needed. But can there come people
'together' when they have to represent different interests? When the
representatives of various nations or groups meet, then they stand up
for their own interests which often goes against the interests of
others. The strongest position has the most power to gain and 
maintain one's own interests, weaker groups have little chance to
realize their interests which often is a question of their survival.
Power is used to establish one's position by using allies or any means
possible. Politic is a tricky game and fair play or ethical view
points rarely take place. So it is not surprising that smaller groups
with less power have little chances to realize their interests and as
this might be a question of survival, so they take in their
desperation extreme ways to be heard. There is a lot of tension
accumulated over a long time. As we all know: It needs only a spark to
start a forest fire.
The world situation needs urgently a solution, but not forced by power
and violence. If world leader would come together they probably can't
do much because they are just representing their country and are not
authorized to go beyond this in the interests of the planet as a whole. For this there will be needed a commission which is formed by independent members who are capable to have an overview and can represent the wholeness of the planet. There might be people on this planet, who are beyond national and ideological boundaries. They should come together to form this commission. 
If the planet is understood as ONE, where all life is one and so
connected with each other, then also humanity is ONE and connected
with each other. The different nations and groups are parts of the whole and in case of a conflict the solution must be found with the view of the whole. The separated parts are not capable for this view because they are too much involved in their survival needs, but they might listen to the 'representatives of the Whole' and work then on a creative solution. 
The 'commission' has no power and they can give only suggestions in
conflict situations, but it would be necessary that this commission is
wanted and supported by all nations. They must work independently of
national or ideological interests. 



Seven Tanka: BeiYin / Betsy:
Silence of sadness
no bird sings in burned forest
cold ash covers soil.
Hiroshima still present
human's omni ignorance.
Desolate landscape
money filling holes of loss
paper substitute.
Opportunity wasted
to find essential longing.
Victim's reactions
scrambled shrinking shocked egos
illusion's carte blanche.
Hidden in ash covered soil
subtle seeds waiting to sprout.
Ghost town, USA
zombies beginning to see
side effects of past.
Things can't hold security
source of strength comes from within.
Weight of attitudes
painful deep engraved patterns
suppressing soul's urge.
Conflict of existence grows
quest towards a step to Self.
Circle's endless road
footsteps building energy
eventual change.
Pain results from resistance
directing one to look inside. 
Numbness from smashed goals
ego's card house blown flat down
pain seeing one’s crash.
Will all waste their chance for change?
Looking outside for the cause?
Exposed illusion
bright light illuminates cracks
there's no place to hide.
Turning to face one's dark side
acknowledgment - seed of change.
Sprout's strength cracking shells
urge of growing towards light
birth movements of growth.
Let's drop empty shells of self
focusing essential goals.
Transformation pain
can be minimized, choosing
unified intent.
All is growing towards the whole
energy will be expressed.
Life penetrates us
light to be exchanged for free 
present NOW within.
Through all existing beings
me and you - no boundaries.
Losing grip of self
seeing that there is a choice
of how to focus.
Identifying world gone
one can be expressed through you.
On worn out railroads
blind men are guiding blind men
trapped in consume games.
Let's jump off this rotten train
walking pathways of surprise.
The time is right now
to listen to our own hearts 
intelligence is beating.
Letting a new source guide us
dropping material world.
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