Comment: I would do everything, to live in a spiritual community, but I don't know where they are. Please could you help me to find one?
   BeiYin: When I started more than twenty years ago to build up a "spiritual community" a had a pretty clear vision about it. Now I am disillusioned, what means that I am living more in the daily reality. My reality is, that after a long chain of experiences with all kind of people over the last twenty years, I had to find out that obviously I am twenty or more years ahead of my time. That means that there are very few people ready for such an initiative and the difficulty is to get in contact with those people. The initial idea why I connected with the Internet about two years ago, was that I had thought this would be a good way to get in contact with like minded people and so to find somebody who would appreciate the possibilities which meanwhile exist: A beautiful place in the nature, with a surrounding which makes it much easier to live a 'spiritual life' not being sucked into the pressure of materialistic responsibilities. There are build rooms to host more than twenty people and there have been groups going on all over the years. But these groups just came to use the place for their group activities so this was not my initial idea in the first place. As difficult as is it to find 'spiritual people' as difficult it might be to find people who want to take part of the responsibility for this place.
   These two years in the Internet I tried to make contact with 'spiritual people'. 
I was busy and tried all the possibilities: News groups, mailing lists, advertisements, articles, Web sites, chat, etc. I tell you, I could write a book about it! The resume is: Forget about it! When I am still in the Internet, then only because it might be possible that in a few years, when there will be 500 million people connected, that there will be a need for something which goes beyond the 'spirituality' as it is offered now. 
   Well, so it might be necessary to make clear first what 'spirituality' is. Now I just want to say what spirituality in my view NOT is: 
   People who are tired of the materialistic world view or not capable to deal with the reality offered in this society, are trying to survive by adapting a 'spiritual' concept, this has always been so. So during two thousand years people tried to live a 'religious life'. In our days for many people the religious concept of Christians are not satisfying so people searching for new views and so adapting concepts from exotic religious traditions. (Of course all concepts have some truth within their frames, but the 'truth' can't be caught in the cage of a frame whatever color it may have). To survive people adapt a 'spiritual concept' and they try to live it. In our days we have a broad offer of new concepts: Apart of the traditional forms and all those in the last twenty years adapted exotic forms, there are 'new age spirituality', 'spiritual star people', 'nature spirituality', 'rainbow spirituality', 'witchcraft spirituality', up to 'satanic spirituality'. Is there anybody who seriously beliefs that those new concepts work better than the old fashion ones? They are all 'concepts' but not SPIRITUALITY. It is obvious that really 'spiritual people' withdraw from these gatherings and so they are difficult to recognize and to find. There are 'spiritual communities', what means they have adapted a 'spiritual concept' but they are not necessarily SPIRITUAL. And meanwhile I do understand why my idea can't work to have this place as a 'spiritual community'. It is simply because I don't offer a convincing concept, there is no 'guru' and there are people needed which at least can take responsibility for themselves and are grown up enough not to depend on any concept or any authority. There are needed people who ARE spiritual and out of this are active and creative. And through my experience I must say, that in the Internet there are a multitude of people who are offering spiritual concepts but there are hardly any 'spiritual people'. I do not say that there doesn't exist 'spiritual people' but I guess the Internet is the wrong place to look for them. The most what seems to be possible and that could be my humble advice to you, Walter, that you first become 'spiritual' yourself. You will not need to look for confirmation for this, not through the Internet and its multiples discussions and also not by being with like minded people in a 'spiritual community'. In a very broad sense the whole planet is a 'spiritual community' just that people are not conscious about it, so to become aware of it would be a good step to become 'BEING spiritual'. 
   Comment: Why didn't these people work out? 

   BeiYin: To answer this I will quote a part of an email from a cyber friend: 
   "I had a spiritual center for six years that was very successful, but I kept everybody busy from morning till night. If you leave it up to people what they do with their time they will just lay around and pretend to be spiritual. They'll sleep a lot and have a lot of sex and drugs will creep into politics and it will be just like a hippie commune before you know it. If you're going to have a successful spiritual community then you have to screen the people very closely, and they have to understand that you're an authority, that you control the situation, and they have to be people who are very dedicated to their spiritual practice. They need to be self motivated. If you get beginners you have to teach them like children from the very beginning, how to eat, how to sleep, how to talk, how to serve, etc. Its not easy. I worked from four in the morning till midnight seven days a week, making sure that everything went off as it should. It was a tremendous amount of work. I was younger then and had a lot of energy but Id never do it like that again. And in the end, unless you have really quality people, people who have class and good breeding, nobody will even thank you. They'll just take it all for granted and move on to the next thing with out so much as a by-your-leave." 
   BeiYin: I can confirm this experience and even I never went like this into the guru role, I surely don't want to do it in the future to make it work.

   Comment: One thing that I consider very important is ownership in community (and life in general). I had once spent several months at a spiritual community which was owned by a single person. He was a very nice person- benevolent and all that but, after a period of time, the fact of the matter is, he is the owner and could kick out anybody he wanted, for any reason. What the founders of the FEC communities do are: 1) create a new non-profit corporation 2) donate the land and buildings to this new corporation 3) create bylaws which define: How someone joins the community, how someone can get kicked out, how conflicts are resolved, etc. In this way the community is owned by the members and there is not the hierarchy that exists in the materialistic world. I would never join a spiritual community that was owned by a single individual. These never work out. 
   BeiYin: "There is not the hierarchy that exists in the materialistic world". Is this your experience just because the community is owned by the members? Just because of this it is not out of the materialistic thinking and behaviors and surely it is not a spiritual community because of this. You would never join if it was owned by a single individual, even if this person is a real spiritual realized one? You are right: "These never work out". Because of the limitation which is brought into the community and everything else. The first step to spirituality could be to deal with these limitations, that means to be aware of it etc.

   Comment: If people didn't need these then they wouldn't need a community.
   BeiYin: That's right, surely not this kind of communities which exist now. But aren't there things we do, even we don't need to do it? Of course I don't need the security a community can give. I would like to have like minded people near to me, especially because our work could be much more effective but I don't depend with my well being on this. I know that being together with a few people can create a very strong energy apart of it's support to the whole group. I mean it more in the sense of: "If there are two or three people in my name together, then I am amongst you!" I am not a Christian but this says is quite well. This of course can't happen if people still cling on their limited personal materialistic world view etc. So, as I see that not even one person understands what I am talking about, at least nobody is responding, so this confirms again that this idea is an illusion. 

     BeiYin: I am not the person who posted the initial article and who is searching for a spiritual community. I have written a critical comment about 'spiritual communities' and about the difficulties to find people for a REAL spiritual community. I visited the raja yoga Web site and I could see that this community is very well organized, but it also confirms what I have written in my comment. It is not the question of following rules for a spiritual life. The only rule can be to BE spiritual and this of course is not a rule. These 'spiritual communities' are kindergartens and mostly filled with lost and helpless people, no wonder that those communities are successfully by giving, beside the basic needs like food and bed, the first guidelines and so a certain security. Those communities for sure fulfill a good purpose for all those people stepping out of pseudo security of the materialistic world view, but that's not what I am looking for. I build up this place in which I am living since 20 years with the thought that there could live a few people together, enjoying the space and the freedom, etc. using their energy not just for their own well being but also for the community and beyond their own needs. [cut...] 
   I received on Mon, 9 Mar 1998: 
   Do you not "hear" yourself? Your response to Walter was cynical, bitter, presumptive, judgmental and arrogant. Truth is relative & personal & no one, including you has a monopoly on it. [...] 
   BeiYin: You obviously didn't understand what I have written in my post. You seem to be reacting out of defense. At least I can't recognize the attitude in my post you are describing. Of course what I have written is personal and relative. It is my limited self expression, it is what I feel and think in this moment. Even I might react out of disillusion and my somehow desperate situation. I do not claim that I am absolutely right but it is my truth and it is the result of serious searching and relating to life and so it is human to believe that there must be also truth in it which can be recognized by other people. Doesn't it come through that after forty years of trying to realize a vision that I am still trying to do my best, even I am tired after spending nearly all my life on this? Even if I haven't reached my goal I don't think all was useless but somehow I need to come now to something concrete. I need to understand what goes on, what is the reality of my surrounding and so my relation to it, finding my position and my connection to it and out of it being able to make a decision for a next step. For sure I wrote my post to get an answer to maybe go on with my project or come to an end, but not to offend anybody and to go into a discussion about personal view points. I do not need to defend or hide anything but if I reject certain discussions then because of knowing that there is no way to talk with somebody who is defending one's view and position. As the above (in this news group) is the only response, I ask myself if there is anybody who knows what I am talking about? As I have written that the Internet might be the wrong place to search for an answer I didn't imagine that I might be 100% right, I am still wondering about it... 
   Comment:  ...the word "spirituality" will make subscribers to some of these newsgroups uncomfortable, which may have inhibited response. The fact that you admit to failing, after forty years trying, suggests that this discomfort may be even wider spread. 

   BeiYin: You are right, that's one reason why I hardly use the word 'god', also I try to avoid the word 'spirituality' but in this case I had to use it because 'Spiritual Community' describes a certain type of community, so I tried to make clear the difference between 'spiritual' and 'spiritual', which is impossible to understand for someone who is not spiritual, that means who is just living a concept of spirituality but not being spiritual. When I had written that I didn't reach my goal, that doesn't mean that I feel that I have failed, but in the view of a businessman this is a failure and as there is hardly anybody who is not thinking in the way of success like the normal society is used, so my way of life is a 'failure'. But in my view not the goal is important but the road I take and the way I am walking, this all happens now, this counts. A future goal can give a provisional reference point but nothing more. It is a fact that 'truth' makes people feel uncomfortable, as long they haven't accepted it... So I don't care about people ignoring me or my self expression. I am not going to convince anybody of my truth. I feel pretty good and I am only suffering because I see the suffering around me and feeling impotent about helping people to get out of it, or better said, helping that they can, through information, convert their senseless suffering into a creative process, understanding that it is part of a growing process. So that's what I am trying and I am asking myself if there are people in the Internet who can receive what I am trying to submit. It is impossible to know when there is absolutely no feedback. But also I can understand that people are not ready to relate and respond, they might take something and it might be integrated in their life, but they are not yet able to respond or to have further questions about it. Also it is possible that they receive the words and take them into their heart, there is more understanding and will not need any response. In case my words doesn't submit the energy which comes from my heart, then indeed I would have failed...

   Comment: The drive of the last couple of centuries for those seeking answers to questions has been to look to scientific/empirical methods. Just sitting and thinking about it has not, for the great majority, shown much in the way of results. 
   BeiYin: You are right, 'sitting and thinking' is not enough, we have to live in the first place, to act, to react, relate to life and find our way through this. That might not show the same spectacular effect as an atom bomb or other scientific/empirical methods, but it will cause an evolution which includes the whole being and that is what might honors humans. 
   Comment: On the other hand, there is no lack of facilities for those who do feel that introspection could be useful. Almost every institution belonging to a faith, from Albigensian to Zen, will happily accept paying guests who can either contemplate in their own way, or join in the general festivities. 
   BeiYin: 'Useful' might be an introspective way as a method to survive when the common outside methods doesn't work and have left the individual being stuck in suffering and unhappiness. Then a concept might be adapted and give a provisional focus point. Maybe, - as long it is a help on the road and not being converted into a self sufficient crutch. And that's what I tried to point out.
   Jimmy: Or have I, too, misunderstood your question?
   BeiYin: As long as the understanding is limited to the thinking and doesn't include the individual's whole existence there can be only misunderstanding. After the identification with contents (concepts) looses up, words might be used as a vehicle to go to spaces beyond mind and human limitations...

    Karen: "What I gather in reading your post, is that you have been striving to create a Spiritual Community for over 20 years. Don't strive, allowit to happen. 
If you believe that we create our own reality, then you have to believe that you draw "those people" to you.
   BeiYin: A vicar past by a beautiful garden. He said to the gardener: 'What a marvelous garden you got with the help of god!' The gardener answered: 'Right! But you should have seen it when god did it alone!'
   Well, I guess it is not that easy. The years went by because I did let things happen. There were a lot of people and there happened enough, what I have accepted as just the right thing on the way. But in all those years I have also learned to select more and more, with other words: I have learned to say NO. There are still enough happening not to get too bored but "those people" doesn't show up. Now you will say that my expectation is too limited and therefor "those people" don't show up. Right: I have a kind of basic expectation. 
   I mentioned it already: "Those people" should be able at least to be responsible for themselves. They should be authentic, that means not pretending something they can't live. They should be able to relate to whatever shows up: around and within themselves, that means being aware of their reactions as part of their own structure and not like normal people putting the fault on to others. "Those people" should be practical and grounded enough. That means that they are able to manage their daily life, dealing in an efficient way with what shows up. They should be aware enough not to go into traps, not those offered by society and the consuming world and not those of multiples games, not personal and not social. They should be aware of their habits and have dropped damaging themselves and others. That means "those people" will not be addicted or depending, whatever this might be. - As you see, I am not using words like 'spiritual', 'god', 'angels', 'love', 'energy' or any of these pictures.
   It is possible that this is ask too much because it would mean that "those people" are kind of 'grown up'. OK, if it is necessary to run a kindergarten then I will do it but I am refusing to do it alone...
   About 'love' I am not quite sure what you mean by that. What I do is expressing myself. If there is love, then this will show through, - for the one who is able to receive it. I am trying to respond in a responsible way, that means reacting or choosing to hold back my reaction. That doesn't mean that I tell people what they want to hear, surely not. So often people will not like what they get. They might be afraid, will deny information or reject other ways of life. But I am not convincing anybody. Mainly I am only talking when I am ask. I believe if there would live a group of people together in the described way, then this would create a field of trust and security in which also people with problems would feel comfortable just being there, so there can happen 'healing' without any manipulation. This is not a concept, I have experienced it when people are coming to spend some time in Falcon Blanco'.

   Karen: When you send out LOVE to attract people to come to your communities, the teachers, healers and artists will come to your doors.
   BeiYin: I do not send out love to attract people. About the teachers, healers and artists who came during all those years, I can tell interesting stories, not all uplifting...
   Karen: You say that no one has responded to you from the Internet. 
   BeiYin: What I meant was that nobody had responded in a way that I could recognize this one as a 'like minded person'. Nearly always it turned out, that people were trying to live a concept, so pretending something they couldn't live, so this were showing when the personality was obviously not on the same level as what was pretended...
   Karen:Maybe you need to paint a new picture for people of what a Spiritual Community looks like to you. Send out your picture, and people will respond to you. When I think of a spiritual community, I have a picture of Pioneer Days type living.
   BeiYin: In the beginning I was living several years without water and electricity, no toilets, etc. Now this has changed: There are ten bathrooms/toilets at the center, with hot water (from sun panels), a big swimming pool, a samadhi tank, sweat- lodge, meditation dome, big group room, etc. There is telephone, fax and of course Internet connection, otherwise we would not be able to communicate now. Right? But this doesn't mean that the days of pioneers are gone, there is still a lot to investigate, to experience and to do. On the field of vegetable and fruits and on the fields of more subtle levels...
  Karen: There is nothing wrong with living in both worlds, the world of spirit and the world of matter.
   If we didn't have matter, nothing would matter!  I tried earlier today trying to picture what life would be like without any society to support our lives.  No grocery stores, no gas stations, no utilities or roads, no pleasure.
   BeiYin: I don't understand why pleasure must be connected and depend on grocery stores and gas stations...
  Karen: Unless or until we transform totally back to spirit, we have needs. We are reliant on the Earth, but we are also reliant on other humans, the plant kingdom, animals and minerals. We all need something. It is our own choice as to what we need. I have been dreaming of a Healing Center, where there are several people or families living on the property, and sponsoring healing seminars, and individual healing, along with a peaceful place for people to come for introspection. I want it to be a Shangra-La type place, with flowing streams and beautiful gardens, nature on my back door step, and a door that is always open, no matter who shows up. It could be Buddha, Christ or an Angel in bums clothing. If I think love and feel love, only good can come to my door.
   BeiYin: Your picture is not that far from what exist here in 'Falcon Blanco', at least all the possibilities are there.

   Karen: I'm not Airy Fairy, I am living proof that this works. I lived in a small, old motor home for over two years.  I would have loved to have heard about your community. But, you see, I had no money and not enough belief in my ability to contribute. Maybe there are others out there too. While I was living in parking lots up and down the West Coast, I had no lock on my door. I never feared during the night for my safety. I never feared running out of gas or breaking down. The one time I did, Spirit put the right people at my disposal, and it was a wonderful experience. None of us are perfect, we all have our own lessons, I just need more help than most! We've all been learning our lessons, don't give up the ship yet, all the plans and ideas of the big spiritual community are about to bear fruit.  All of our dreams from the past that didn't pan out are about to bloom. The thing we haven't done, and for the next Great Experiment, we need to have our collective picture of reality set. I could go off on a major theme, but I'll pass for now.  However, it would be good if all of us created a very basic plan for the new world, and find what we agree on. More on that later. Where is your community, and please describe it to us, WE are interested."
    Bei-Yin: I am interested to get to know more about you and the people who are with you.

   Karen: You are looking for material results in an etheric realm. 
   BeiYin: What I am searching for is a word form (and a way of life and living together with other people) which expresses the state of being which goes beyond the average experience limited to the materialistic world view. Apart of this there are material results right now: 
   There is a beautiful place in the nature, away from people and any kind of contamination. There is an open space into all directions up to the horizon. There is living space for more than twenty people. There is food in abundance for at least a dozen people and hundred animals. All this with a minimum of effort to get it. (Mostly it goes to the compost if it isn't distributed to people from outside who are in need.) There is a maximum of freedom and no need to do something out of pressure because of a compromise or a need for money. There are no chains or fences for animals and not for people ;-). There is always enough money for whatever is needed. There are all the technical equipment necessary to run this place: Cars, machinery for the land to grow vegetable etc., computers, various printers, telephone, fax, a lot of tools, all the equipment for the kitchen with six refrigerators and two deep freezer and several which are not in use. There is a huge storeroom full of mattresses, carpets and all kind of material you can imagine. There is a one hundred meter long 'creative street' with all kind of building material, to build green houses, furniture, sculptures, windmills, or what ever... There is plenty of drinking water of best quality, there is electricity and hot water for 20 people produced by sun energy. I can continue with this list of materialized results of ethereal realms. (etheric? This word doesn't exist in my dictionary)
   Indeed I was wondering why the right people didn't show up until now. I had patience and let it happen, but the years went by so I started to work with the Internet... 
   Karen: Spirit is the Love in your heart. The dictionary isn't always correct or complete. When the love in your heart meets the thoughts of your mind, you create beauty and dreams. 
   BeiYin: In other words: When emotional reactions meet reactions of the mind or flew together in harmony with thoughts, then the result in daily life is in harmony with oneself and possibly also with one's surrounding. 
   Karen: When the fear in your heart meets the thoughts of your mind, you create everything you don't want. 
   BeiYin: I agree: Maybe what we don't want but what we need for our personal lesson, what might just be the old structure we are containing from our personal history... 
   Karen: What you don't have is because it is blocked by fear on some level. If you want your Spiritual Community to grow and prosper, you must first decide WHAT YOU WANT. 
   BeiYin: It seems to me, that this was decided long ago, even before I came to the manifestation of this body. The 'vision' exist apart of what I could possibly wish. Personally I have no wish and so I have no fear, at least not consciously. I want to complete the purpose of my life and why I came here, what ever this might be. I have the trust that I am guided and that all will show up in it's right moment. The only thing I have to do is to respond as good as I am capable. That's all and that's what I do. That I am not perfect this is pretty clear, but I don't need to worry about it, because I do as good as I can... 
   You are telling me, that I need to decide what I want. First let me say that I don't want to call it 'Spiritual Community' maybe: 'Intentional Self Realization Community' or 'Relating to Life Community'.
   Karen: What is your intended surroundings? What do you expect to do all day?  BeiYin: I do more than I want to do. I try to respond to what has to be done and this is far to much for me. I am working sometimes 20 hours a day and still there is a lot more which needed to be done urgently. So if things are dirty and chaotic I can't help it. If people feel disturbed by it than there are only two ways: They do something about it or they leave. 
   My expectation is that there is less responsibility for me and that the work is shared with other people, than it can be fun. 
   Karen: Do people go to town to work? 
   BeiYin: That is possible but turned out not to be good, because then the place is often only used for sleeping and eating and mostly people have no energy to do something here. 
   Karen: Is all the food raised there so no money is necessary? 
   BeiYin: As I said before: There is plenty of food and there is plenty of land to grow all kind of vegetable and fruits.
   Karen: Do you want artists and craftsmen? Healers and Teachers? 
   BeiYin: Yes of course, all those people are possible if their doing is an authentic self expression, if they really like their work and if they don't do it for money reasons. 
   Karen: Lonely people to fill your need? 
   BeiYin: You are kidding?! 
   Karen: You must decide what you want it to be so Spirit can deliver it to you. If you tell Spirit "I don't want druggies and lazy people", Spirit hears your heart open, you want company. It hears druggies, it delivers druggies. When you want, your heart is open. Even when you don't want, your heart is open, just not as wide. Expand your heart with a picture of what you truly desire. As you believe you deserve it, it will come to you. 
   BeiYin: I don't agree with this kind of openness. I went through this until I learned to say NO. To expand one's heart with a picture is not what I can suggest. Maybe this works with people with desires but I don't feel that you are talking to me.

   BeiYin: I have little to do with religious things, at least I don't belong to any church or religious group. I do not worship and I do not pray. I do meditate when it feels like, but what seems to be the most important is that I try to 'relate to life' in the most aware and responsible way I am capable. 
   I am conscious about the illusion of separateness and that this is > caused by clinging on one's 'lousy' personality, etc. 
   Karen: You do NOT have a lousy personality. You have a lousy perception of your personality. 
   BeiYin: If there is a lousy perception then this person has a lousy personality, because the one is identified with his or her perception. Is it possible that you mean 'image' or 'self image' when you are talking about 'perception'? Now this is something I am trying to point out in many articles, post, poems etc., that being authentic and expressing oneself in an authentic way, means not to be identified with an image, an idea or a concept. 
   Karen: The ego came with us at birth to keep us safe. It is our protector in a material world. The ego or personality is the part that says the stove is hot, don't touch it. It says "Open the door" or you will walk into it. Spirit would tell you that you can walk through it. When you are an ascended master, you will walk through it, but until then, you need your ego. When you allow your ego to be your judge, it gets in the way. To observe things and choose or not choose to participate, you are feeling with your heart instead of judging with your mind. Believe me, I am not an ascended master, but I am aware. My ego still gets in the way too, but less and less. I hear its endless chatter of what is wrong, and I can stop it now. 
   BeiYin: To be able to comment on this I need a description of what 'Spirit' is for you. In the dictionary there is a whole page and so every body can pick out something which fits to one's own picture... But I prefer to respond to your picture. I doubt that there exist a 'material world'. This might be the view of the 'lousy personality'?

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