Where's the 'bright light'?
This 'dialogue' has
happened about ten years ago in one of those precious 'NewsGroups' that
then later were destroyed by all the spam...
From this question it seems that you have a kind of vision that this 'light'
exist, although you are not able to see it. The cause might be, that your
eyes are closed or you are still wearing narrow blinders. Instead of asking
'where' it is, you might need to ask why you don't see it. If there is
no concrete answer, then the best will be to trust that the light will
show up in it's time when you are ready. Now your vision might be too much
depending on your personal image and that might be an obstacle and just
because of those 'blinders' you are wearing.
I felt something before and don't
see that I feel it now. So yes, this is a kind of 'vision'. So by asking
this, I feel its a reality check. You are right, the question isn't ‘where
it is’, its ‘why I don't see it’. This is practical advice then, to ask
and try to find out, even though you give the answer… Okay, so I know the
blinders are still in place, that at least is something. If no answer comes
from my question, then I can see how trusting is a much better alternative
than crying over something that isn't yet ready.
Where's the flooding of understanding?
Understanding is the result of a growing process and comes by itself, it
must not be forced, otherwise it might be just a means for survival purposes.
'Knowing and understanding' might be part of your personal 'property',
from this probably you get your 'self confirmation'. Clinging and defending
this property is an obstacle to be able to go beyond...
This question probably comes from
another vision of mine, asking it for the same reasons as the one before.
In any case, I agree with what you say here about understanding. Do I ask
this because that for me is what is most valid? Perhaps, this is true.
I will look at it.
How does it feel to come home to one's being?
With this question you are looking to secure yourself of a state you don't
know. You only can 'come home' when you give up your clinging to your momentary
existence which in a certain way is holding onto a dream state, but you
are afraid to wake up and asking how it will be to wake up, - before you
dare to do any step further...
I see that in asking these questions I am trying to determine if I am awake
or not. I don't feel that I'm there, because I have some type of vision
that hints at what it could be like. It doesn't seem that the normal confirmation
seeking personality could be so honest and ask such a question, but then
it becomes more obvious with the visible reacting disappointment when the
desire is not met. So there must be a clinging to this desire.
There doesn't seem to be a way to know.
There are too many ways 'to know' and all have very little to do with reality
which only can come out of the direct experience of life.
I say this, I am conceding that the personality can't understand it.
If the 'personality' can't understand then who understands?
I'm realizing that this most likely
is the basis of my clinging to my momentary existence, my great need to
know or understand. Feeling myself in this way, arising from the turning
of the personality, is what makes it feel to me that I exist. So then I'm
saying that I'm sensing that I have to let go of this ‘way’ to think that
I know, seeing that this causes the turning defense game of interpretation,
keeping one fully identified with this structure. So it appears that looking
and observing, allows a response from a different source beyond the usual
defending of reactions, which looks to be a direct knowing and understanding.
So maybe then there is subsequent understanding reflected in the personal
structure, but it's only momentary, one shouldn't cling to it.
Am I expecting too much?
Yes you do, on the other hand expectation is the motor which moves you.
Also causes disappointment, frustration and suffering, bringing you to
painful situations, which will make you question yourself...
So the vision can be the motor
to urge you on, and the disappointments the reality check, turning you
back to yourself.
Am I clinging to understanding?
Yes you do. This is just natural and the way human personality is surviving.
Even though its all interpreted.
There is no objective reality in personal understanding. All is subjective
and result of interpretation, based upon the personal background structure.
Am I detaching from my own reactions?
To be able to observe your own reactions, it needs a certain detachment.
Most people are sucked into their reaction and they are not able to observe.
The reaction is giving 'identity' and proof of one's existence, because
the personality is formed out of emotions and thoughts. So humans in general
and each person is constantly looking for confirmation. It is a long process
to come to the point to question these automatic reactions. Before this
happens everything will be done to protect one's property. There is a sophisticated
defense system built up and unless a person is ready, so will not question
this established system or even listen to anything which might question
it with the danger that it might be reduced. So if you feel that you are
detaching from your own reactions, that shows that you have probably suffered
enough and that you are open to do your first steps beyond your 'personality'.
I do feel more open and humbled
right now due to the last round of suffering, so I feel renewed with determination
to continue the quest to find out about myself. So this new attitude seems
to give the necessary distance to more objectively observe. But also it
seems strange in that it feels split, and there was fear in asking because
I remember in the past when I couldn't even acknowledge my own reactions.
Am I adopting a new position?
On your walk you are using stepping stones. You are using one to go to
the next. With each one you have a new position. This position is always
'new' but it gives a certain security and that is what you still need;
although there are other ways to survive, for example to adapt oneself
easily to any situation, probably by not relating or responding, only with
the minimum of effort to avoid problems by going too deep into a challenge...
When I say ‘adopt’ I mean dream
up. I understand more when you say ‘adapt’. That makes sense in that you
grow from one stage to the next, and each one is new or different from
the previous. Why is the security needed? Is it that I still need it or
do all growing systems need it? I see a new challenge…
Probably all existing systems are striving for security, unless this blocks
the evolution and then there are reactions of self-destruction that might
open a search for a new way .
Am I looking for a new role?
With every step you do, your role might change. With this you are adapting
yourself to new situations. Probably you are not 'looking' for new roles
in the first place, because this adapting happens 'automatically', but
it might also be that you are looking for something new to experience yourself
in a different way, because the old way didn't give you enough satisfaction
and confirmation anymore.
I understand the first part, where
you are talking about the growing process and adaptation. The second part
is what I'm worried about in that I see its the personality reasserting
itself. The same old confirmation game still being played.
The need to be confirmed in one's existence is a natural part of being
in general and belongs to all existence, beginning from the first cell
up to the highest form of consciousness. This is inseparable part of
the growing process and it is good not to see this in a negative way, although
it shows many negative aspects on the path...
Am I splitting further apart?
Not necessarily, because your system is doing every thing to keep itself
together and defending it's state of being.
The system being the inbuilt survival
All systems have an inbuilt survival mechanism which is part of the inbuilt
Am I fooling myself again?
Of course that's what you are doing! There is no other way. This is part
of your existence, fooling yourself you survive.
I don't understand this answer.
Does this mean that I'm fooling myself or do you mean this in general for
Every body is fooling oneself, more or less, I guess there is no exception
in this. The first step is to look at this fact and accept it, then it
might be possible to go beyond. Only then, because as long we believe in
our precious knowledge and wisdom, getting our self confirmation
out of it, then we will always be fooling ourselves.
So it looks like you are saying
that the ‘fooling oneself’ syndrome happens because we are growing, which
is somehow related to our inbuilt reactions that are there for the purpose
of our continued survival. I can now see that all these reactions coming
from the personality are defensive, thus making sense that these happen
automatic with the sole purpose to keep us alive. This understanding is
what I think allows a more objective viewpoint to be able to just observe
Have I adopted a more clever defense?
Yes of course. Your learning goes into all directions, especially and in
the first place to help you to survive.
Survive, survive, survive…
Maybe it would be a useful exercise to make a list of all the different
ways you are using to defend yourself. You have to look really near to
discover the very sophisticated tricks the personality is using. That means
reacting to influences or - not reacting...
I have been doing this, and so
far I see that I use the ‘not reacting’ technique quite a bit.
I fear, that I'm not done with
all this yet.
Of course not. What is your expectation? You are looking for an 'instant'
method? Why is there fear? Because you are tired of experiencing disappointment
and frustration? You want to get out of your painful existence? So you
are caught in your experience, you want to get out of it but at the same
time it gives you proof of your existence and this you don't want to miss
or let go.
I would like an instant method
that's for sure. Yes, I am tired of experiencing this appointment and frustration.
Yes I want to get out of my painful existence and yes it looks like I'm
caught in my experience because it gives me proof, and this I can't let
go of. This is reality, this is what it means to survive? Better
to accept this truth and learn how best to deal with it?
Yes, it might be the best to accept information which can help you to get
out of your conflict. It is not the question how 'to deal best' but to
be willing to go through...
As I understand it, the personality
feels it is surviving because one is getting one's proof of existence by
defending the reactions happening there. So it seems that once one sees
clearly how this survival game works, then one can just stop defending
the reactions, or not giving energy to that anymore. Is that letting go
or willingness to go through?
Is there ever an end to this?
There might be an end if there is an end to your fear and this is part
of your growing process and depends in good part on you. You are not a
victim of your own fear. This is a reaction to protect your system. Be
aware of it! Then you will be able to go beyond.
Okay, I will look to see when it
I fear, because I don't know.
So now with this you 'know' where you can start in an effective way.
I feel like I'm in limbo.
This is your fear because you are not in the state of limbo, for this you
are still too full. It is your fear which makes you feel like in limbo,
you are clinging on all the stuff which gives you identity. At the same
time there is an urge to let go and this conflict provokes fear.
I agree I'm still too full, so
it must be fear that creates the feeling. However, I don't know what to
do about the conflict that's provoking this.
You don't need to do anything and you can't do anything. It is a load you
are carrying with you, it is not possible just to drop it. You are the
load! You are identified with it, it gives you the feeling of existence
and out of this you are reacting and responding to whatever comes near
to you. As long you are identified with your 'load' you are also identified
with your reactions and this gives you confirmation. Now you are in parts
aware of your reactions and so with this you are becoming aware also of
your load. And this is already enough, you don't need to do anything. This
part of the 'load' you are becoming aware of, will drop by itself...
Okay, I understand that I am the
load and see why I can't drop it, because I'm identified with it. So it
does look like that becoming aware of the load is enough.
I feel I'm at a critical point.
Do you see it as an opportunity to go forward in a new and creative way?
What is 'critical' about it?
I feel this opportunity is here
(again), and it seems critical in that I'm tired of the old way and want
to go forward in a new and creative way. And I don't have very much trust
right now in that I won't grab onto something fairly soon, to keep the
personality game turning around.
I feel empty with nothing defined.
Is it the feeling of 'transition' with the outlook to a new field which
opens up to a new horizon? You might need to allow... You might need to
trust the inbuilt 'growing force' within yourself, this will bring you
over the critical point of feeling empty.
I suppose it's like the feeling
of transition, in that I don't feel like I've attached to any understanding.
I feel humbled from my recent experiences and feel wide open for something
I know I don't want to go back.
So then don't look back. It is the challenge now you need to confront,
relating and responding out of your capacity, just as good as you can.
Your 'past' is pushing you and gives you also the necessary means to go
It gives some comfort knowing there
is some support. I agree, the challenge right now is to confront, relate
and respond as best as I'm able to what presents. It helps having a little
I know I don't want to cling.
But do you know that clinging is the most natural way to survive of any
existing being, so better to accept this and deal with it. Why you don't
want to cling? Your experience is that you are clinging and this is in
contradiction of what you want because you know that you can't get free
with clinging. So there is a conflict and you are fighting. Might it not
be better to get to know the reason for your clinging and just observe
it when it happens?
This makes quite a bit of sense.
Yes, better to observe it when it happens and get to know the reason, then
you aren't fighting against it.
I know I don't want to live these
But the fact is that you are dreaming and you don't wake up just by wanting
to wake up. So what happens now because of your wish is that in your dream
you dream that you are awake. So you are not waking up but you are creating
just another dream. This is common and one of the many aspects caused by
I know that you can't wake up by
wanting to wake up. But also I admit that this goes round and round, so
I have the wish and also the dream. Does praying for grace help?
You are living and you are relating and responding the best you are capable,
Apart of this you
are meditating regularly. I think this is all what is needed. You can pray
if this feels right for you, probably it will not damage anybody...
Only one thing seems certain: I just want to find out who I am.
Now it depends how intense this wish is. You want to find out even with
the risk that you might discover that there is nothing left and you might
fall into just nothingness?
OK, then just go ahead. Trust yourself and trust the growing force within
yourself. You will not fall into 'nothingness' this is just an image produced
by fear. Now you have all the tools needed and you have the full support
by everything around you and all what shows up in front of you.
I feel that fear of falling into
a ‘nothingness’-image. But also it must be that to conquer this, one can
just use the tools of observation, trusting in oneself and all that is
around by relating to what life presents.
Maybe for now, I just cling to
that observing as best as I can.
There is no clinging necessary. For now you just live and enjoy life the
best you can, which also means to be as responsible as you can, relating
and responding the best you can to whatever shows up in your life... To
I sense this, being more open to observing everything around and inside,
no matter what it is. I think with the attitude of this intention to find
out and challenging one's own reactions, it should be possible.
ask too many questions. SHUT UP and be one with nature!! MAO TAE
To tell this person, who is asking all these questions, to shut up and
to be with nature, is similar as to ask an alcoholic not to drink or a
drug addict not to take drugs, or an work addict not to work too much,
or a person in deep depression to ask better to be happy...
The next consequent
step in your philosophy would be to ask people to take off their cloth
and live in trees and only to eat leaves and once in a while a fat worm
or bug. I guess you are practicing your philosophy for yourself and you
can give us more detailed advises. Or is it enough for you just to shout
your instant wisdom into the Internet forest?
When this person had
ask those many questions, then obviously they came out of an urge and out
of the need to find clearness in a conflict situation. And as I was ask
these questions, so I felt the responsibility to answer them. If you would
have taken the effort to read my answers, then you would have seen that
the essence of my response is not so different than your advice except
that I wouldn't tell a person, who is seriously searching, to shut up.
When a person is asking and showing to be capable to use her intellect,
then this faculty can be used to find an answer. One should be able to
see the difference if a person is stuck in one's intellect and using this
just for self confirmation as a kind of mind masturbation or is using it
as part of one's natural resources to do a growing step towards that what
you call 'nature'! It is obvious that reducing one's abilities to a more
primitive state of being by excluding one's mind is not an intelligent
solution. Probably you also vote that a tranquilizer is added to the drinking
water of population to keep them all like zombies, what they in general
When I publish this
conversation here, then with the thought that there would be people who
are interested in an exchange. Who wants to shut up, can do this freely
and you are right: Often this is the best one can do... But then it also
might be the best to stand up and express oneself, even though nobody seems
to understand and is supporting ones 'stand point'.