BeiYin: This our place
under the fig tree is a private space, we can trust that there are only
people who belong to this circle.
Mark: The above line
is a turn-off to me. I'm not too interested in joining private clubs at
rather public, open, free discussion lists. I think that trust is great
-- and trust is much higher in a public setting, not a private one. I want
to have trust that there are free-thinking people here.
BeiYin: The word 'private'
was used to say that we can feel like among friends who are also interested
to get to know each other, to understand the other and are sensitive enough
to respond to a personal situation. What means to be aware of the other
person and their needs. When you write that 'trust' is much higher in a
public setting, then I guess this is a different trust. It is the trust
that nobody can touch you if you don't want, that you don't need to be
responsible and that you can disappear when ever you like without feelings
of guilt to have hurt somebody. This is not the trust I would like to create
'under our cyber fig tree'.
If you are looking for discussions
and for being free from responding with a certain responsibility, then
better use news groups or discussion mailing lists. I am tired of 'discussions'
were the main goal is to hold one's position, defend it and find weak spots
in the arguments of the adversary. This all to confirm oneself and to make
one's thinking and feelings react. Just to feel oneself being alive, on
costs of the others and one's surrounding. I believe this will not happen
'under our fig tree'.
I watched news groups and participated
for more than two years in several and had to notice that they might be
usefully to get information but on a personal level most of them they don't
give anything. The discussions are not personal at all and there is no
expression or response which might enclose the feeling level. I am convinced
that this is the main reason why most of the news groups are dead and those
which have still traffic are mostly used by people who are representing
dogmas or wanting to sell their products. The Internet is not what it could
be, there is very little sharing or exchange, when this happens then in
a private way like with email. There should be other ways and I believe
that mailing lists are a possibility to rise the level of the Internet
and this surely has to do also with 'trust' and expecting something more
personal and trans-personal.
I don't know exactly what a 'free-thinking'
person is. I guess you mean that this person is not bound to certain fixed
dogmatic ideas. But even if a person is not directed through adapted ideas,
that doesn't mean this person is free in one's thinking. Thinking and feeling
are reactions from the personal system and this is all conditioned and
structured... at least in an average person like you and me. We are all
longing for freedom, we are dreaming of it, but what is it we are doing
for it? Even the limited freedom we have to make decisions, we are not
using to get out of our cage to reach unknown fields...
BeiYin: I go to this
place because I need to express myself. Here I feel safe, this space is
protected. There is nobody who will use my vulnerable state to attack me.
Isn't self expression the most important in one's life? It seems
to be difficult in our society that people freely express themselves. We
are not allowed to show feelings, it is not possible to show that one is
vulnerable. This is like being weak and this is against the image of how
one has to be. 'A man doesn't cry', what a nonsense! As if men doesn't
feel hurt. At least they are not allowed to show it, only in the way that
they cover there pain in the many ways which are socially accepted, like
getting drunk etc.
It hurts to see people walking through
life with such a strong armor, they are protecting themselves permanently,
against attacks from outside and as well against feelings from themselves.
People don't allow themselves to feel and if it happens, if it can't be
avoided then they will not show it, because they might be rejected or not
accepted.
I don't want to walk around with
an armor which makes me inflexible and doesn't permit to receive from my
surrounding. Even if this world is hurting me I prefer to stay unarmed
and also without weapon. I don't need to defend myself... Isn't this 'defense'
the reason why there is so little communication? Or why there is hardly
any real communication? People who can't feel and can't receive are not
able to communicate, that's pretty clear, isn't it?
Myra:
I
am of the same mind on this, though I visualize it more in terms of "walls"
instead of "armor". The walls of protection that we erect to keep out hurt
also prevent us from receiving the warmth and love of others (as well as
making it difficult for us to send out those good feelings).
It is my desire to live an emotionally
unguarded life with those closest to me, even though I run the risk of
being hurt from time to time. To me, that kind of emotional vulnerability
is essential to developing a really deep relationship with someone, and
the potential benefits far outweigh the risks. I'm reminded of the old
saying -- "It takes both the sun and the rain to make a rainbow." To avoid
the pain is to also avoid the pleasure.
BeiYin: In this two
years in the Internet I had quite a lot of exchange with all kind of people,
interesting discussions, yes, but when I think back: There was not one
person who dared to express some feelings. I mean feeling which were felt
and then expressed and not those 'new age phrases which mostly pretend
something. Well, it is indeed difficult to open oneself in the Internet,
knowing that all around there are the vultures just waiting that someone
shows a soft spot, to attack immediately without mercy.
Myra: I
know that's very true on the newsgroups, where it seems most people are
just lying in wait for an undocumented statement so they can leap on it
with criticism. I suppose "flame wars" are a sort of hobby to some folks!
However, in my e-mail correspondences
I've found quite the opposite -- I've made some warm and caring friendships
in the last year that I expect to last a long time. After the initial "getting-to-know-you"
phase passes and a certain level of trust and respect are established,
it's easier for me to share honest thoughts and feelings with a friend
via e-mail than in person. I think it's because I have time to formulate
my thoughts when I write, and I don't get flustered or emotional and forget
to say something.
BeiYin: I don't fear
those people. I want to live. I want to express myself and I want to share
with other people. I want to communicate without holding back, without
armor, without protection. I am not feeling well at this moment and I don't
know how I can take this world any longer in its reality which is so inhuman
and were people are that much separated from each other. I don't know how
I can continue. I can try to create my own reality which is the expression
of me and my reality. So there is this space under the fig tree, this is
a reality which is different from what goes on out there. We may allow
to show ourselves, we don't need to pretend anything to be accepted. Someone
said today: But how can you expect that this will happen in the cyber space
when it didn't happen in twenty years under this real fig tree? Well, it
had happened sometimes under the real fig tree and I am sitting there quite
often. Our cyber fig tree exist and now there are about twenty people sitting
under it. They are there, they just have to realize that this place is
safe and that they are allowed to show themselves.
Myra:This
place does feel safe, and I'm sure more of us will make ourselves known
to the group as the days pass. There is a gentle presence here, and you've
been the one who has set the tone, Bei-Yin. Thank you for planting this
cyber fig tree so we can benefit from it, as you have benefited from the
real one. I'm very glad I found this list, and I think it will help me
in my efforts to be the best person I can be.
BeiYin:
I am absolutely sure that we will come together. We have nothing to loose.
It is the moment, we can start something new, something we feel we have
to do it, because it is needed. We must use the cyber space for something
creative, something personal, we must show ourselves to understand ourselves,
to see that there are spaces which are waiting to be discovered. Yes, words
are limited, misused, worn out and there are many words which doesn't yet
exist so we have difficulties to express ourselves, indeed, but this will
not stop us from opening up and going forward, because "Liberty beckons"!
Myra:The
Internet is such a powerful tool -- one whose influence will change the
world (as it already has) in ways we haven't begun to realize yet.
Those who feel the need to write
on this list can express themselves, and those who don't feel comfortable
doing that will surely benefit in some way from reading the words of others.
Sounds like a win win situation to me -- and indeed liberating!
Jean:
So far in this life, 'self-expression' has brought ridicule, hostility
and attack. Result: STRONG armor. I strive toward Self belief. Right now,
that armor is a way of life, survival. How do I survive without its weight?
How do I survive without its protection? I surround my Self with optimism
and Self belief, then validation and support will be the result. Then,
this life can be more than just survival.
I no longer want to slink, unobserved,
in the background, feeling unworthy. I will no longer be an emotional chameleon,
emulating Miss Congeniality, suppressing intuition and feeling. Though,
knowing this, I need more time to trust, to be able to present my Self.
I am not clear, in my mind, as to
the extent of my participation in this group. I have to stand, look at
my fears directly, and know I can accept any consequences. This will result
from Self worth/work. I'm unsure outside communication is necessary for
me, currently.
I can admit, I sure enjoy
the fig tree, even in silence. |